Jag S-type hate

"TDIGuy" (owenrosier) 01/18/2014 at 00:24 • Filed to: None

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Okay so I had a conversation with some friends of mine the other day, please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this is the worst Jag on the planet? I mean first of all just look at it! Its horrible looking and this was a Ford produced Jag meaning they has some americans sit in a room and say "what do americans think of a jag? ...old with a pedigree". problem is they decided to use really poor retro styling and put it on top of the awful Lincoln LS. Yes the S-type R is fast but that doesn't make it any better .

Any thoughts ?

The WB > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 00:33

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Sounds like you've been watching Top Gear series 10 (I think.)

James May says just about the same things you have about the S-Type, before introducing the XF.

TDIGuy > The WB 01/18/2014 at 00:39

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Yeah I've seen that episode but I've just never liked the car its ugly and tacky.

The WB > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 00:45

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I'm not a fan of it either. A coworker of mine has a ca. 2007 Jag X-type in black, which I actually really like. It had just enough vintage with some style to look okay.

The S-type is not my cup of American tea.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 01:06

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It certainly had its low points. It wasn't particularly quick (minus the S-Type R), it didn't quite pull off the modernization of the Mark 2, and it was subpar by Jag's standards inside.

I still put it slightly above the X-Type sedan. I still like the wagon.

M54B30 > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 01:17

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Not a Jag fan whatsoever but I actually think that the S Type is my favorite of them all.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 01:32

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Nah, it's not the worst. X Type bests it both in ugliness and cynicism. But it's got to be a contender for second. Although personally I prefer to hate on the XJ40.

Aero > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 01:36

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You think the LS is awful? Have you ever even driven one or are you just making misguided assumptions?

The LS and S-Type were both very good handling cars, Jag just screwed up the styling on theirs. Both used aluminum throughout the suspension and had close to 50/50 weight distribution. While the LS had a cheap interior initially it was a true competitor to the E39 in terms of dynamics. Now the chassis underpins the XF.

TDIGuy > Where have all the lightweights gone? 01/18/2014 at 01:38

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Yeah those aren't much better haha

TDIGuy > M54B30 01/18/2014 at 01:39

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probably because it basically isn't a jag in my book

TDIGuy > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/18/2014 at 01:41

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See I love all the ugly late 80s and early 90s jags like the XJS and the XJ40 as bad as they were, I think they are great

TDIGuy > Aero 01/18/2014 at 01:43

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I never said it was a bad driving car I just think it isn't all that great of a car it could have been much much better

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 02:39

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Well you did pick the best picture so it's hard to hate, but yeah that was a low point...the X type is the only one worse.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/18/2014 at 02:39

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XJ40 was a colossal pile of shit, good point.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 06:39

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It's pretty much exactly the same chassis and drivetrains that underpin the XF, which is a great car.

The styling is naff though. Perhaps the worst application of retro styling I can think of.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/18/2014 at 06:42

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What evidence are you basing that off? I've found them to be excellent cars. More refined than the classic series, more reliable, faster, lighter, better built and better looking (which I agree is subjective).

That's before you even get to the series 2 cars after the Ford imposed quality reforms. They sorted the electrics out, which was the only real achilles heel of the early cars, and gave them better engines still.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 06:46

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I know it's a matter of personal opinion, but I don't think the XJS or XJ40 are ugly at all. I prefer the XJ40 to the Series XJ. It's less of a fussy design, more clean-cut. The XJS is nowhere near as good looking as its predecessor, but it looks like nothing else on the road. Very sleek.

They're far from bad cars either. Ask anyone who's owned them (so long as they didn't panic as soon as the V12 had a hiccup).

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 11:34

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I think it is a fine looking sedan, and reminiscent of earlier Jaguars, before the XJ, namely the Mark 2, and it's associated S-type version from 1963-68.

Better looking than the Lincoln LS platform mate, although LS isn't bad looking, just too much of a BMW clone.

S-Type R is also a serious performer, as a sport sedan.

Sedans are a traditional body style anyway, so why not be a little retro?

TDIGuy > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/18/2014 at 11:36

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If I could have a sorted out V12 one then I think its a fantastic car because those V12's are so smooth and plus you can say you drive a v12 but problem is there just aren't very many sorted out ones most of them are total heaps now

TDIGuy > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/18/2014 at 11:38

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I picked the best picture because I still think its horrific even in a good picture. It's terrible retro styling.

TDIGuy > BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. 01/18/2014 at 11:42

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Like I know thats what they were going for but they just did it wrong in my opinion they designed it to target us over here in the states and it just looks kinda tacky because of the grill and quad lights on a modren sedan

BoxerFanatic, troublesome iconoclast. > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 11:46

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As opposed to every other modern sedan looking exactly like every other sedan?

I think it it is classic, classy, and interesting, and well finished. Especially the S-type R with the blacked-out/body-color instead of brightwork.

But then again, I like a lot of Malcolm Sayer's now-classic Jaguars.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 13:03

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I have to say, I did like it when it came out, but I've grown not to over time.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/18/2014 at 13:10

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Better built? I must say that is the first time I've ever heard that word used to describe an XJ40, or really any Jag before the X300. I guess maybe I'm basing it off of everything I've read regarding it. Don't get me wrong...I actually like them, I even love the square headlights. But I've always read that the build quality was abysmal.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/18/2014 at 18:55

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From my experience they're pretty well built, and I've got one of the early cars that are supposedly worse than the later ones built after Ford took over (although it is near the end of the production run).

They're lightyears ahead of the series XJs, purely by the dint of being built after most of the industrial unrest in Britain had dissipated. Maybe not as tank-like as, say, an LS400 (reportedly, they were the first to do research on the degradation of interior materials so even 15 years on they shouldn't squeak or rattle), but really not as bad as people like to say.

The vast majority of people who offer advice on what is reliable and what isn't haven't actually tried living with the cars they're offering advice on. Especially on the internet. Ask any random person about the reliability of an Alfa 156 and they'd say they'd sooner trust a crack addict.

So far, I've dailyed mine for >4 years and it's been nothing but reliable.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 18:59

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Yeah, especially in America where people have a habit of swapping Chevy V8s in at the slightest sign of trouble.

I really, really want a V12 XJS. I'd lighten it considerably (fibreglass boot and bonnet should be ~30kg between them, removal of rear seats maybe another 15 etc.), tweak the V12, swap a manual gearbox and install some exhaust cutouts with a button on the dash that says 'loud'.

When I'd press it it'd sound like this:

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/18/2014 at 19:10

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Interesting. I might have to look into this some more. I know someone that owned one at one time, he loved it but said it was unreliable. I guess it's always hard to really make a general statement in any case.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > TDIGuy 01/18/2014 at 19:12

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I have a real soft spot for the XJS. They're a nice looking car, especially in soft-top form, although the tin-top sorely needs a side-opening hatch on those buttresses. And they were a logical progression of where Jag was taking the E type, from sportscar to GT cruiser.

But the XJ40 I've never got. As a followup to the Series XJs it just didn't move the game on. Uglier, less reliable, no better performing, no more spacious. And IMHO the realisation of this was responsible for Jag spending the next 20 years diving down the retro rabbit hole.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/18/2014 at 19:15

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..and GO like this.

TDIGuy > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/18/2014 at 19:33

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Yeah see I've heard the same that the xjs and xj40 are built horribly but I love them I just think they look good and are a great car when they work I don't care that they aren't particularly fast but when I think of a jaggg that's the car

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/18/2014 at 19:33

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Yeah it is tricky. He might have had a duff one, or I might have had a good one. Tricky to tell before you take the plunge yourself :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen 01/18/2014 at 19:35

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Precisely :) minus the unbelievable driving skill of course...

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/18/2014 at 20:02

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Very true....as with most things in life :p